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Sri Lanka Equity Forum » Expert Chamber » REEF and VFIN- Accountants who can't calculate

REEF and VFIN- Accountants who can't calculate

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innam

avatar
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
First topic message reminder :

REEF results are out and i'm sure we'll get multiple posts about the magical EPS figure of 7 for the March quarter that they have reported.

http://www.cse.lk/cmt/upload_report_file/568_1306907002379.pdf

But it seems that some of the accountants working for CSE listed companies don't seem to know how to use a calculator.

REEF profit after tax for the March quarter 2011 is 14 million and with 47 million shares outstanding my excel gives a figure of 30 cents but REEF is showing an EPS figure of 7.27
Profit after tax March quarter 2010 is 9 million and with 47 million shares outstanding my excel gives a figure of 20 cents but REEF is showing an EPS figure of 4.93
i have left out the dilution from the warrants to keep it simple for the moment

The same thing happened with VFIN yesterday and with two DONKEY LEVEL mistakes in two days, the troubling question to ask is, is this a deliberate attempt to mislead retailers by manufacturing incorrect EPS numbers or aren't they bothered about accuracy?
http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t4305-vfin-good-results-will-it-shoot-up-soon#29045

Don't the CEOs/CFOs/Finance Managers of these companies take look at what they file?


Hiru


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@GJ wrote:is it good or bad to buy?
--
===
====
=====

VFIN is good at below Rs 50.

REEF is good to watch and buy as there would be huge capital gains. For me REEF.W0017 is comparably good. My view is based on the current trend and the information currently available, but not on fundamentals.

Please search for information available and evaluate by your self as money is yours.

smallville


Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@Gaja wrote:
@smallville wrote:
@Gaja wrote:interestingly, admin or moderators or any of the members of you have the contact with the company, why don't you informed to the company and ask them to correct it

I already sent them a note requesting an explanation..

Good let us know, if you got the reply

I'm afraideven after 2 days I've recieved NO reply.. U know wat this means right??? Twisted Evil
Poor souls.. Can we send this to SEC as well? indicating the malpractice by company??

monash


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Smallville i also waited for your post to know the response of company.

Yes of course we can inform this to SEC. i think there is possibility to sue the company also if you have money and time, Consult a lawyer.. Wink
Reef is a pure scam.. the latest victim of them is CLND.

smallville


Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@monash wrote:Smallville i also waited for your post to know the response of company.

Yes of course we can inform this to SEC. i think there is possibility to sue the company also if you have money and time, Consult a lawyer.. Wink
Reef is a pure scam.. the latest victim of them is CLND.

Well to be honest with, I dont have a single share even warrants.. but just for the community service I tried informing the company toget some response.. They didnt have the courtesy to accept it a mistake or whatever further assures this is a pure scam Wink Twisted Evil
Well I have other fish to fry.. so if some can post this to SEC, would be glad.. Wink

intelstk


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
tinyman wrote:For me auditors are not ethical at all. Most of the young guys and girls who works days and nights to meets the deadline are getting paid a allowance (not salary) less than what a estate worker get paid.

So how come we can expect a reliable work from them?

this is nothing to do with auditors. These interim figures are un audited. They responsible for annual audited figures only. Even that case prepartion and presentation of FS in a responsible of Directors.

Eventhough they are paid less than state workers, they are doing great job for the entire market definitly. So, don scold auditors in this case plssssssssssss

duke


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@smallville wrote:
@monash wrote:Smallville i also waited for your post to know the response of company.

Yes of course we can inform this to SEC. i think there is possibility to sue the company also if you have money and time, Consult a lawyer.. Wink
Reef is a pure scam.. the latest victim of them is CLND.

Well to be honest with, I dont have a single share even warrants.. but just for the community service I tried informing the company toget some response.. They didnt have the courtesy to accept it a mistake or whatever further assures this is a pure scam Wink Twisted Evil
Well I have other fish to fry.. so if some can post this to SEC, would be glad.. Wink

complaining to SEC is futile, waste of time and postage stamps.

gann

avatar
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Maybe they have added the capital gain from CLND implicitly Smile

Slstock

avatar
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics
@gann wrote:Maybe they have added the capital gain from CLND implicitly Smile

If you are serious . no can do. This is for quarter ending March 31st isn't it.

In anycase it is inexcusable to make such drastic errors. If they have an alternative way of calculating EPS it is in decent interest to let the public know.

gann

avatar
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@slstock wrote:
@gann wrote:Maybe they have added the capital gain from CLND implicitly Smile

If you are serious . no can do. This is for quarter ending March 31st isn't it.

In anycase it is inexcusable to make such drastic errors. If they have an alternative way of calculating EPS it is in decent interest to let the public know.

I was kidding. geek

Chinwi

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
This can not be a mistake nor an ignorance.

As a manager you know the position of you company. You do not need a report to have a general idea of you company. That is in your day to day life.

When there is a 7 Rupee figure at the bottom for REEF any donkey who go through the report before releasing it should know that is impossible.





DPPEL


Stock Trader
what do you think vfin curent price ......

greedy

avatar
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
A similar mistake that I found in Browns IPO..... (I posted this in another forum)

I was looking at Browns IPO Prospectus & came across this funny EPS figure in the accounts for the 9 months ended 31.12.2010. As per the prospectus, the EPS number is LKR4.917. There were 98mn shares as of 31 March 2010 and this was sub divided in an 1:10 ratio in 16/11/2010. Post split number of shares became 980mn shares.

As per the income statement, net profit for the 9 month period ended 31.12.2010 is LKR1,445.556mn.

Therefore, based on the above numbers the EPS for the period is;

EPS = LKR1,445.556mn/980mn

= LKR1.475.


So how did they get an EPS of LKR4.917? Is this an error or done deliberately?

I Guess they have done a wrong Calculation. The below could have been their calculation which is wrong...

Net Profit for the period LKR1,445.556mn

Weighted Average Number of shares (98mn+882mn/9months*2months) = 294mn shares

EPS = LKR1,445.556/294mn shares
EPS = LKR 4.917

Anyone with accounting knowledge would know that when there is a share split, EPS needs to be calculated based on post split numbers not by weighted average number of shares.

smallville

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@greedy wrote:A similar mistake that I found in Browns IPO..... (I posted this in another forum)

I was looking at Browns IPO Prospectus & came across this funny EPS figure in the accounts for the 9 months ended 31.12.2010. As per the prospectus, the EPS number is LKR4.917. There were 98mn shares as of 31 March 2010 and this was sub divided in an 1:10 ratio in 16/11/2010. Post split number of shares became 980mn shares.

As per the income statement, net profit for the 9 month period ended 31.12.2010 is LKR1,445.556mn.

Therefore, based on the above numbers the EPS for the period is;

EPS = LKR1,445.556mn/980mn

= LKR1.475.


So how did they get an EPS of LKR4.917? Is this an error or done deliberately?

I Guess they have done a wrong Calculation. The below could have been their calculation which is wrong...

Net Profit for the period LKR1,445.556mn

Weighted Average Number of shares (98mn+882mn/9months*2months) = 294mn shares

EPS = LKR1,445.556/294mn shares
EPS = LKR 4.917

Anyone with accounting knowledge would know that when there is a share split, EPS needs to be calculated based on post split numbers not by weighted average number of shares.

Welcome to the forum buddy.. Hope you're the same person..
And good finding..
However I think even with the correct EPS figure of 1.4, Browns inv. is fairly ok.. but its shame on EPS calculation Wink
First VFIN then REEF now BIL.. Seems like accountants are not that intelligent these days or authorities don't care.. Shame on us for not looking at this earlier too. Evil or Very Mad

rijayasooriya

avatar
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
@smallville wrote:
@greedy wrote:A similar mistake that I found in Browns IPO..... (I posted this in another forum)

I was looking at Browns IPO Prospectus & came across this funny EPS figure in the accounts for the 9 months ended 31.12.2010. As per the prospectus, the EPS number is LKR4.917. There were 98mn shares as of 31 March 2010 and this was sub divided in an 1:10 ratio in 16/11/2010. Post split number of shares became 980mn shares.

As per the income statement, net profit for the 9 month period ended 31.12.2010 is LKR1,445.556mn.

Therefore, based on the above numbers the EPS for the period is;

EPS = LKR1,445.556mn/980mn

= LKR1.475.


So how did they get an EPS of LKR4.917? Is this an error or done deliberately?

I Guess they have done a wrong Calculation. The below could have been their calculation which is wrong...

Net Profit for the period LKR1,445.556mn

Weighted Average Number of shares (98mn+882mn/9months*2months) = 294mn shares

EPS = LKR1,445.556/294mn shares
EPS = LKR 4.917

Anyone with accounting knowledge would know that when there is a share split, EPS needs to be calculated based on post split numbers not by weighted average number of shares.

Welcome to the forum buddy.. Hope you're the same person..
And good finding..
However I think even with the correct EPS figure of 1.4, Browns inv. is fairly ok.. but its shame on EPS calculation Wink
First VFIN then REEF now BIL.. Seems like accountants are not that intelligent these days or authorities don't care.. Shame on us for not looking at this earlier too. Evil or Very Mad
These are the ways that companies use to fool the investers who are not with good knowledge in accounting.
Actually there is some logic behind the method,used by company to calculate EPS.Person without proper accounting knowledge can not understand such tricks.
It is really nice of our experts that they have kept an eye on such cunning tricks and posted those to the form.
Thank u very much to all.Exclamation

kiwi

avatar
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
REEF have corrected the EPS figure now. I am not sure if there was any explanation given. http://www.cse.lk/cmt/upload_report_file/568_1307353270.pdf

Chinwi

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@kiwi wrote:REEF have corrected the EPS figure now. I am not sure if there was any explanation given. http://www.cse.lk/cmt/upload_report_file/568_1307353270.pdf



Can anyone tell me who is the ultimate owner of REEF ?

Is that still Mr. KDD (PABC) or Mr. DJ (Imagewise)

(Pl. Refer above report )

sapumal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Chinwi wrote:
@kiwi wrote:REEF have corrected the EPS figure now. I am not sure if there was any explanation given. http://www.cse.lk/cmt/upload_report_file/568_1307353270.pdf



Can anyone tell me who is the ultimate owner of REEF ?

Is that still Mr. KDD (PABC) or Mr. DJ (Imagewise)

(Pl. Refer above report )

Currently it is DJ. PABC is the credit provider. Tomorrow it may be differ

hariesha


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
In VFIN its anualised EPS, not for the qtr. Correctly all companies should show their EPS in anualised format. So in VFIN EPS of 4.64 is correct and it trades @ PER of 9.2 which is atractive.

greedy

avatar
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@hariesha wrote:In VFIN its anualised EPS, not for the qtr. Correctly all companies should show their EPS in anualised format. So in VFIN EPS of 4.64 is correct and it trades @ PER of 9.2 which is atractive.


Companies should disclose only their quarterly & year to date EPS in the quarterly accounts. Because, that would be the actual number based on actual results. When Quarterly EPS is annualised, it implies that company management tells us that the company is going to make profits similar to the current period in the remaining quarters which is totally inaccurate!

Therefore, EPS, should never be annualised in the Quarterly accounts/prospectus. It's up to the investors to predict what will be results for the coming periods.

reyaz

avatar
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@sapumal wrote:I don't have any disagree with your point innam. They can't show a EPS using this statement. It is a magic figure
My point is they had a EPS of Rs 7 during last quarter due to the land revaluation and it is in the balance sheet.

Eps = Earnings for the reporing period
           No. Of shares (cumulative)

deli

avatar
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
Its more complicated than that- it has to be annualized, hariesha is correct.

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