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Sri Lanka Equity Forum » Stock Market Talk » Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets

Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets

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1Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:05 am

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
People will think stock market is a casino spot or gaming spot when they loose money from it or hear from others of such losses. But in reality if you can spot on the reason for any stock to move, up or down, then you should be not making any losses at all. What are the reasons possibly could influence a move of a stock?

Broadly we can identify three main reasons for witch a stock can move, both ways.

a) Performance of the company
b) Speculation
c) Manipulation

Performance driven movement
This is broadly the summary of the end result of a company's core business activity. For example if we take a manufacturing company their core business is producing and marketing product or range of products. Then when this product is gaining popularity in the market and increase the sales continuously the producing company generates increasing revenues which results increase in profits. When profits are increasing their EPS will grow and the PE ratio of the share price will come down. A possible investor who sees on this scenario will understand the intrinsic value of the company and will identify its actual value is actually higher than current value and so decide to buy the stock. When more people starts doing this automatically the demand for that stock increases will lead the stock price to move upwards which result the stock's PE ratio to up as well. The same scenario will reverse if the company's performance drops and then the demand for the stock decreases while the supply will increase due to more investors tend to exit from the stock and the price will move to down wards. PE ratio will follow.

Speculation driven movement
This is the movement of a share based on the investor's perception of some future activity. Investor will analyse and take a view on future event and will link the possible outcome of that to the company's/stock's performance. If he thinks the outcome will going to be favourable for the company then the company can increase their revenue or reduce cost and thereby increase profits so that the stock price should move high. Then that speculator will buy into the stock. If more investors believe in the same way then they too will try to buy it which will increase the demand for the stock and the stock will move upwards. The same scenario reverses when the outcome of the future event is deemed negative for the company's future performances. Examples for this type of movement are;
a) Future tax changes on corporate profits by Government  
b) Certainty of an stock market index to reach a certain level, higher or lower
c) Merger or acquisition plan of a company
d) Expectation of a better dividend 
e) Strategic deal with a strategic investor
f) Opening-up or closing-down of a market or markets for the company's products or services, etc.

Manipulation driven movement
This is the movement of a share that results from an intentional activity of a person or group of persons. Here the manipulator only knows the reason to move a stock and the same person or group of persons knows the end point of such a movement. That is the danger of this type of movement. This can happen outside the company as well as inside the company. Examples for outside manipulation are;
a) Person or group of persons will get together and identify a share that can take high or low and then put big orders in the order book as well start buying or selling. Upon reaching the desired target they exit/entry from/to the stock
b) Spread a false information that influence the crowd to think that a particular stock will move to a certain level after buying/selling the same stock already. The crowd will act based on the information and finally the manipulator to reach their targets.
Examples for inside manipulation are;
a) A company manipulates its financials good or bad and inflated/depressed its share price followed by a huge sale or buy of the significant stake of the company at the desired level
b) spread falls information on the company itself and influence the crowd to act on it.

Among these three reasons the most sure and profitable one is performance driven movement which is very logical and reasonable. But to do that the investor should have good skills on analysis, timing as well as patience and of course the holding power. The master of this is Warren Buffet and you know how he invest and we have never heard of looses for him even within the US market crash happen in 2008-10 period.

Speculation driven movement have mix results where the success is driven on the accuracy of the speculation by the speculator. The actual can go either way. But anybody who master it can really win. One of the person who are very good at this is George Soros.

The manipulation driven movement is the most dangerous and that's where most of the investors have lost their wealth. In more than 90%-95% of the cases the mass crowed who are victims to manipulation have lost money because 90%-95% of the cases the manipulator run away with public money.

So now my dear friends try to maximise your returns from stock market by becoming a performance-driven investor rather than become a beggar by being a victim of a manipulator. Remember now CSE is increasingly becoming a trading market than an investing market so manipulators are popping up like mushrooms. You have the capacity to safeguard yourself but no other can protect you.

Good luck in stock investments.

2Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:03 am

samaritan


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Very informative and a good piece of advise EC.

3Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:40 am

Nuwan Prasad


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Thank you

4Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:52 am

Thushara Ayya

Thushara Ayya
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Thanks a lot EC.... my +++ for u.

5Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:21 am

Jayashantha

Jayashantha
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Thank you for sharing this excellent post. Most people today don't know the difference between investment and speculation either. Plus, they hardly understand the fact that when the price of a particular share move up, the risk associated it too increases and when the former moves down, the latter too decreases. It's because of this blissful ignorance that a good number of people buy in bull markets and sell in bear markets and suffer huge losses.

6Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:11 am

SLBOY


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Thanks EC

7Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:30 am

csebrowser


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
Woww really good stuff..your service should continue..longlive EC

8Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:59 pm

anges


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
in sri lanka mainly manipulation

9Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:31 pm

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
So now its the time to relook at this phenomina again. As the first step I would like to know hiran's view on the stock movement.

Hiran, can you mention three stocks that moved in this year so far based on their performance. Basketball

10Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:36 pm

vic19

vic19
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Great article at the appropriate time.

God bless you E champ. ( not E chemp )

Thanks

11Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:44 pm

hiransilva23


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
EC man hexp gatta nisa ogollo mawa wihiluwata aran neda itz k bro.danui meka dakke.im nt a expert.bt cn name smstocks.gran,staff,cwm.meeta wada Honda ewa ati.man Danna taramin mewa hondai

12Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:13 pm

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
@hiransilva23 wrote:EC man hexp gatta nisa ogollo mawa wihiluwata aran neda itz k bro.danui meka dakke.im nt a expert.bt cn name smstocks.gran,staff,cwm.meeta wada Honda ewa ati.man Danna taramin mewa hondai

Ok good. Then tell me why you havn't include HEXP here? According to your opinion to which category HEXP belongs to?

13Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:17 pm

hiransilva23


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
It should in long tetm catogory.bt i think it should trade over 100 nw.at d moment im looking for a short tern gain.i hav sm problems.so i cnt keep my money here.otherwise i can buy sm stocks for long term.

14Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:23 pm

hiransilva23


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
It should in long tetm catogory.bt i think it should trade over 100 nw.at d moment im looking for a short tern gain.i hav sm problems.so i cnt keep my money here.otherwise i can buy sm stocks for long term.

15Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:27 pm

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
@hiransilva23 wrote:It should in long tetm catogory.bt i think it should trade over 100 nw.at d moment im looking for a short tern gain.i hav sm problems.so i cnt keep my money here.otherwise i can buy sm stocks for long term.

Havn't ask you the value. What I asked you is according to your view what is the reason for HEXP to move. reasons are given in above my explanation.
a) Performance
b) Speculation
c) Manipulation

The descriptions of them is also given in my explanation. So please.

16Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:52 pm

Teller

Teller
Moderator
Moderator
HEXP is under performance and speculation.

17Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:12 pm

hiransilva23


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Perfomance ,speculate n unexpected nett asset value also

18Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:28 pm

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
Net asset value story is positive for price movement 
But performance is not justifiable. Why? One thing revenue is declining year by year. Profit margins declining year by year. Market space shrinking year by year.

Then what? All these talks on improving EPS with new carbon factory, BMW supply contract, interest income from bank deposits are speculation on future activities. So then profit or loss depends on the effectiveness of the speculator

19Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:52 pm

Brinthan

Brinthan
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Good post EC sir and also good explanation about HEXP...

20Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:46 pm

hiransilva23


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
If u dnt mind let ne knw hw csf better than hexp??u recommend and i think buying also.other thing we should follow a stock before coming its peak level.i knw dt csf also wil hav a good future.hexp also good.plz explain

21Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:19 pm

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
@hiransilva23 wrote:If u dnt mind let ne knw hw csf better than hexp??u recommend and i think buying also.other thing we should follow a stock before coming its peak level.i knw dt csf also wil hav a good future.hexp also good.plz explain

Lets talk about the dimensions of valuations. Please get a pen and piece of paper because you have to work out sum.

A share can be valued either based on its earnings (cash flow) or assets (net assets). The main dimension using earnings is PE ratio ( net present value of future cash flows in case you use cash flows) and the main dimension using assets in PBV ratio.

To value a share using PE ratio I would use the following yardsticks.
a) QoQ revenue growth and YoY revenue growth
b) Gross profit margin and net profit margin
c) QoQ and YoY revenue  growth
d) ROE (profit attributable to shareholders/average equity)
e) PE ratio and the comparable industry PE ratio

Now you can workout the above and let me know what you think. Below is the two threads I did containing most of the data you need to compare your above two stocks. But avoid speculative stories here. Just objective comparison. This should be a good learning for you.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t50607-benchmarking-richard-pieris-exports-with-hayleys-fibre?highlight=benchmarking

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t52061-nation-lanka-finance-plc-growing-with-stability?highlight=nation+lanka

22Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:07 am

D.G.Dayaratne


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Under MR and Basil Mostly Mnuplation 2005-2014

Now mostly Company performance'

I hope speculation will play important role very soon

Then market also will go up



Last edited by D.G.Dayaratne on Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:09 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typing mistake)

23Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:35 pm

hiransilva23


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
EC thanks.1st all i must tell u im a small invester.so still im learning.i dnt hav much knwledge in technical side.so itz dificult to unterstand sm important thngs wr u r mentioned here.nyway thnks a lot il study thru ur comment

24Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:48 am

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
Lot of manipulation and for the sake of public interest I have pulled out my this thread again.
Thanks

25Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:17 am

kcd1992


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
I kind of feel the ASI is also manipulated to not to move Shocked

26Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:38 am

worthiness


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Practically manipulation cannot be eliminated from world stock markets. But well placed tightened policies are still capable of reducing the agitated volume.

27Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:13 am

reyaz

reyaz
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Couldn't agree more, this post was informative. If you let me add one more reason why shares are bought is to get information about the company. Specially competitors buying other player's shares to get information about the company.

28Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets Empty Re: Why Stocks Move in Stock Markets on Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:36 am

EquityChamp

EquityChamp
Moderator
Moderator
The three reasons I have stated here are almost valid till now. All the major stock movements we saw so far can be attributable to one of these three. GL.

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